Old Time Hardcore X Straight Edge

History
Black Flag was a hardcore punk band formed in 1976 in southern California, largely as the brainchild of Greg Ginn: the guitarist, primary songwriter and sole continuous member through multiple personnel changes. They are widely considered the first hardcore punk band.
Black Flag forged a unique sound early on that mixed the raw simplicity of the Ramones with atonal and microtonal guitar solos and frequent tempo shifts. Over this could be heard lyrics—mostly written by Ginn—about isolation, neurosis and paranoia, themes which did not disappear when Henry Rollins took on the role of lead singer in 1981. Most of the band's material was released on Ginn's independent label, SST Records.
Black Flag were (and remain) well respected among their underground culture, with their influence primarily in their tireless promotion of a self-controlled DIY ethic and aesthetic. They're often regarded as pioneers in the movement of underground do-it-yourself record labels that flourished among the 1980s' punk rock bands. Through seemingly-constant touring throughout the United States and Canada, and occasionally Europe, Black Flag established an extremely dedicated fan base. Many other musicians would follow Black Flag's lead and book their own tours, utilizing a word-of-mouth network.
Over the course of the 1980s, Black Flag's sound, as well as their notoriety, evolved in ways that alienated much of their early punk audience. As well as being central to the creation of hardcore, they were part of the first wave of American West Coast punk rock and are considered a key influence on the punk subculture. Along with being among the earliest punk rock groups to incorporate elements of heavy metal (particularly in their later records), there were often overt freestyles, jazz (mainly free jazz), breakbeat and contemporary classical elements in their sound, especially in Ginn's guitar playing, and the band interspersed records and performances with instrumentals throughout their career. They also played longer, slower, and more complex songs at a time when many bands in their milieu stuck to a raw, fast, three-chord format. As a result, Black Flag's extensive discography is more varied than many of their punk-rock contemporaries.
Early YearsFormed in 1976 and initially called Panic, Ginn insisted that the band rehearse several hours a day. This work ethic proved too challenging for some early members; Ginn and singer Keith Morris had an especially hard time finding a reliable bass guitarist, and often rehearsed without a bassist, a factor that contributed to the development of Ginn's distinctive, often low-pitched guitar sound. Ginn's brother Raymond Pettibon and SST house record producer-to-be Spot filled in sometimes at rehearsals.
Chuck Dukowski, bassist with Wurm, took a liking to Ginn's group, and eventually joined, forming a committed quartet with Ginn, Morris and drummer Brian Migdol. The band played their first performance in December 1977 in Redondo Beach, California. To avoid confusion with another band called Panic, they took on the name Black Flag in late 1978. They played their first show as 'Black Flag' on January 27, 1979, in Redondo Beach. This was the first time Dez Cadena saw the band.
Ginn's brother Raymond Pettibon, stated "If a white flag means surrender, a black flag represents anarchy." Their new name was reminiscent of the anarchist symbol, the insect spray of the same name, and of the British heavy metal group Black Sabbath, one of Ginn's favorite bands. Ginn suggested that he was "comfortable with all the implications of the name." The name was suggested by Ginn's brother, artist Raymond Pettibon, who also designed the band's logo: a stylized black flag represented as four black bars. The band spray painted the simple, striking logo all over Los Angeles, gaining attention from potential supporters, and thoroughly irritating police. Pettibon also created much of their cover artwork.
There were few opportunities for punk rock bands to perform in Southern California, (Los Angeles club The Masque was the center of the L.A. punk scene, but was also rather provincial, and didn't often admit bands from outside L.A. proper). Black Flag organized their own gigs, performing at picnics, house parties, schools, any place that was available. They called club owners themselves to arrange appearances, and plastered hundreds of flyers—usually Pettibon's severe, haunting comic strip style panels—on any available surface to publicize performances. Dukowski reported that the "minimum (number of flyers) that went out was 500 for a show."
Though Ginn was the band's leader, special note should be made of Dukowski's contributions to Black Flag. Ginn was tireless and profoundly disciplined, but he was also rather quiet. Dukowski's intelligent, fast-talking, high-energy persona attracted significant attention, and he was often Black Flag's spokesman to the press. Dukowski acted as the group's tour manager even after he no longer performed with them, and he was probably as important as Ginn in establishing the group's DIY aesthetic and demanding work ethic. Dukowski's bass guitar was a vital part of the early Black Flag sound; "TV Party", for instance, was one of many songs "driven more by Chuck Dukowski's percolating bass line than Ginn's stun-gun guitar."
Morris appeared as vocalist on Black Flag's earliest recordings, and his energized, manic stage presence helped the band earn a reputation in the Los Angeles area. Migdol was replaced by the enigmatic Columbian drummer Roberto Valverde (a.k.a. ROBO), whose numerous clicking metallic bracelets became part of his drum sound. The group played with a speed and ferocity that was all but unprecedented in rock music; critic Ira Robbins declared that "Black Flag was, for all intents and purposes, America's first hardcore band." Morris quit in 1979, citing, among other reasons, creative differences with Ginn, and his own "freaking out on cocaine and speed." Morris would subsequently form the Circle Jerks.
After Morris's departure, Black Flag recruited fan Ron Reyes as singer. Reyes was the drummer for an early lineup of Red Cross (later Redd Kross). This was the lineup that recorded the Jealous Again 12-inch EP and was filmed for the legend-making Decline Of Western Civilization movie. This was also the lineup that toured up and down the West Coast for the first time, the version most fans outside of LA first saw. It should be noted that one of the songs Ron Reyes sang on the Jealous Again EP was "White Minority" which has often been cited as proof of racism in Black Flag or hardcore punk in general. For the record, "White Minority" was sung by a Mexican (and a Columbian drummer) and Black Flag removed that song from their sets after Reyes left. Reyes was in the band only a few months before quitting mid-performance (for the remainder of that gig, the group played an extended version of "Louie Louie" and invited audience members to take turns singing). In fact, the Jealous Again EP didn't come out until Reyes had already left, and the band, still bitter over his leaving listed his name as "Chavo Pederast" on the sleeve, which translated means "paedophile." Ron Reyes moved up to Vancouver, BC, Canada, a city that had welcomed him warmly during Black Flag's first visit. He joined the Braineaters briefly, then formed Kill City, and finally the Guns N Roses inpired Crash Bang Crunch Pop. (Reyes still resides in Vancouver, and is active in charity work on behalf of the eastside's poorest residents.)
The more reliable Dez Cadena--another fan--then joined as singer. With Cadena onboard, Black Flag began national touring in earnest, and arguably saw two peaks: first as a commercial draw (they sold out the 3,500-seat Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, a feat they were never able to manage again); and second, perhaps seeing the peak of attention from police in the Los Angeles area, due to the violence associated with Black Flag and punk rock in general. The band members have often insisted, however, that the police instigated far more problems than they solved.
By the summer of 1981, however, Cadena's voice was worn. He had no formal training or previous experience as a singer, and had severely strained his voice during Black Flag's seemingly nonstop touring, and he wanted to play guitar rather than sing.
Rollins Joins
Twenty year old fan Henry Rollins (birth name Henry Garfield) — then living in Washington D.C. and singing for hardcore band S.O.A. — had corresponded with the band, and met them when they performed on the U.S. east coast. At an impromptu show in a bar, he asked to sing "Clocked In." Since vocalist Dez Cadena was switching to guitar, the band invited Rollins to a rehearsal. Impressed by his stage demeanor, they asked him to become their permanent vocalist. He accepted, despite some doubts, due in part to Ian MacKaye's encouragement. Rollins acted as roadie for the remainder of the tour while learning Black Flag's songs during sound checks and encores, while Cadena crafted guitar parts that meshed with Ginn's. He also impressed Black Flag with his broad musical interests during an era when punk rock music and fans were increasingly factionalized; he introduced Black Flag to Washington DC's go go, a distinctive take on funk music.
Rollins was Black Flag's longest-lasting singer, and has remained active in music to the present. When he joined Black Flag, he brought a different attitude and perspective than previous singers. Some earlier songs, such as "Six Pack" (a song written about ex-singer Keith Morris) blended a nearly goofy sense of satirical criticism (of apathy and alcoholism, respectively) with driving punk rock. He was a dynamic live performer and powerful singer, who usually appeared on-stage wearing only shorts. Ginn once stated that after Rollins joined, "We couldn't do songs with a sense of humor anymore; he got into the serious way-out poet thing."
With Rollins on board, Black Flag began work on their first full length album. The sessions for the record (chronicled in Michael Azerrad's book Our Band Could Be Your Life) were a source of conflict between the band and engineer/producer Spot, who had worked with the band and the SST label since their early years. Spot had already recorded many of the Damaged tracks with Dez Cadena on vocals (as well as Keith Morris and Ron Reyes) and felt that the band's sound was ruined with the two guitar line-up (these versions can be heard on the albums Everything Went Black and The First Four Years). Whereas the earlier four-piece versions are more focused and much cleaner sounding, the Damaged recordings are more akin to a live recording, with little stereo separation of guitars, and somewhat muddy. When asked about the lo-fidelity production, SPOT has said "They *wanted* it to sound that way." However, the artistic content and expression on the album showed the band pushing punk or hardcore music to a new level, with deeply personal and intensely emotional lyrics. As such, Damaged is generally regarded as Black Flag's most focused recording. One critic has written that Damaged was "perhaps the best album to emerge from the quagmire that was early-'80s California punk ... the visceral, intensely physical presence of Damaged has yet to be equaled, although many bands have tried." Damaged was released in the fall of 1981, and the group began an extensive tour in support of it, forging an independent network for touring independent music acts that would form a cornerstone of the independent music scene for the decade to come.
The previous year 1980 saw the US punk rock movement hitting a peak in popularity. With Damaged and their growing reputation as an impressive live band, Black Flag seemed poised on the cusp of a commercial breakthrough. The record was to be distributed by now-defunct Unicorn Records, a subsidiary of MCA. Trouble began when MCA refused to handle Damaged after MCA executive Al Bergamo determined Damaged was an "Anti-Parent" record. However, according to longtime SST employee Joe Carducci the "Anti-Parent" statement was not the real reason for MCA's refusing to distribute Damaged; Carducci reported that Unicorn Records was so poorly managed and so deeply in debt that MCA stood to lose money in distributing the record, regardless of its content. This was the beginning of a legal dispute that would, for a period a few years later, disallow Black Flag from using their own name on any records when Black Flag released Damaged on SST Records, and placed a copy of the "Anti-Parent" statement on the record's cover.
With their new singer, Black Flag and The Minutemen made their first tour of Europe in the winter of 1981. The tour was the stuff of legend (Rollins would later publish his diaries in the book Get In The Van), with the band meeting punk icon Richard Hell and opening a concert for him. In Europe, the group encountered not only eager fans, but hostile audiences and aggressive skinheads. These so-called "punk rockers" seemed more interested in the violence associated with punk music than its artistic value, and would often cause trouble for the band, antagonizing and physically attacking them at their shows. As the "front man", Rollins was a frequent target, and would become known for fistfights with audience members. When he initially joined the group, he was "a skinny kid", but would quickly become hardened. In the years to come, he would transform into a muscular tattooed figure who could hold his own against a hostile audience. More importantly, he would develop a distinct showmanship on stage, where he could entertain an audience just by talking to them. This would make him the focus of considerable attention in the years to come.
As the band was about to return home from the European tour, UK customs detained Columbian drummer Robo due to Visa problems, and he was not allowed back into the country. This would be the end of his tenure with the band (he eventually was able to get back into the United States and in 1983 would join The Misfits as their drummer). The loss of Robo temporarily put an end to extensive touring for a while. Emil Johnson of the Twisted Roots filled in for one tour, but it was clear he was only temporary. While on that tour in Vancouver, the band found out that drummer Chuck Biscuits was leaving D.O.A.. He was quickly drafted onboard, traveling with the band for rest of the tour (cut short because of Henry Rollins' twisted knee) to learn the songs. This lineup recorded the later-bootlegged cassette 1982 Demos, showing the direction the band would go in for the My War LP, and hinting at the greatness that might have been. However, due to personality conflicts and the Unicorn court injunction-forced inactivity of Black Flag, Biscuits left to join their rivals The Circle Jerks. (Later, Biscuits joined ex-Misfits singer Glenn Danzig's solo project Danzig). Black Flag eventually got Bill Stevenson of The Descendents to join permamnently (he had filled-in from time-to-time before). While the Unicorn records court injunction prevented the group from releasing a new studio album, they nonetheless continued to work on new material, and embarked on a period which would mark a pronounced change in the group's direction (and that of underground music in general).
Perhaps the violence the previous tour had an affect on the band's direction. The group had also become increasingly interested in "un-punk" music, listening to 60s groups such as The Jimi Hendrix Experience while on tour, and some of the members (particularly Ginn) under the influence of cannabis. (However, various members had been fans of such music long before Black Flag, with Ginn being an avid Grateful Dead fan, and Cadena of Hawkwind.) As such, the new material (which can be heard on The 1982 Demos bootleg) was slower and less "punk", with classic rock and blues influences seeping in. Nonetheless the new music was as uncompromising as ever, bucking the underground hardcore trend even as hardcore itself rebelled against the mainstream (fellow SST labelmates the Meat Puppets went through a similar metamorphosis during this time). However, the sessions showed the group to be at a crossroads, with Cadena leaving to form his own band DC3. He would take some of the new songs he had written for Black Flag with him and record them for DC3's first album.
Additionally, by late 1983, Dukowski had retired from performing with Black Flag (some accounts report he was "edged out" by Ginn); Azerrad reports that Ginn was dissatisfied with Dukowski's failure to progress as an instrumentalist, and made things difficult for Dukowski in an attempt to make him quit, but in the end, Rollins took it up himself to fire Dukowski. However, a few of his songs were featured on later records, and Dukowski continued acting in his capacity as tour manager.
1983 found Black Flag with fresh songs and a new direction, but without a bass player, and embroiled in a legal dispute over distribution due to SST's issuing Damaged (Ginn argued that since MCA was no longer involved the Unicorn deal wasn't legally binding, while Unicorn disagreed and sued SST and Black Flag). Until the matter was sorted out, the band were prevented by a court injunction from using the name "Black Flag" on any recordings. They released a compilation record, Everything Went Black, which was credited to the individual musicians, not "Black Flag". In fact, wherever the original album artwork had the words "Black Flag", they had been covered up with small slips of paper, thus adhering to the letter of the law.
After Unicorn Records declared bankruptcy, Black Flag were released from the injunction, and returned with a vengeance, starting with the release of My War. This record was both a continuation of Damaged, and a vast leap forward. While the general mood and lyrics continue in the confrontational and emotional tone of Damaged, many songs are slowed down, mixing in influences such as Black Sabbath with hardcore. The results were powerful, and the record would prove influential to grunge music as the decade progressed. Lacking a bass player, Ginn played bass guitar, using the pseudonym Dale Nixon. On the May 1, 2007 episode of his radio program Harmony In My Head, Rollins reported that one of Ginn's favorite albums during this era was Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds of Fire (1973), and opined that John McLaughlin's guitar work influenced Ginn.
Freed legally to release albums, Black Flag was re-energized and ready to continue full steam ahead. The group recruited bassist Kira Roessler (sister of punk keyboardinst Paul Roessler, of 45 Grave fame) to replace Dukowski, and began its most prolific period. With Roessler, Black Flag had arguably found their best bassist. Dukowski was a powerful player, but Roessler brought a level of sophistication and finesse to match Ginn's increasingly ambitious music, without sacrificing any of the visceral impact required for punk rock.
1984 saw Black Flag (and the SST label) at their most ambitious. This year they would release four full-length albums, and toured nearly constantly, with Rollins noting 178 performances for the year, and about that many for 1985. With Dukowski gone, Ginn ceded much of the spotlight to Rollins, who has expressed some discomfort over being the group's de facto spokesman, while Ginn was the recognized leader (Ginn wrote the majority of the group's songs and lyrics).
Greg Ginn, Henry Rollins, and Kira Roessler in 1984With Roessler on board, Black Flag began earnest experimentation, sometimes to critical and audience disdain: One critic writes that Slip It In "blurs the line between moronic punk and moronic metal"; another writes My War is "a pretentious mess of a record with a totally worthless second side." Rollins reports that Black Flag's set-lists in this era rarely included older crowd favorites like "Six Pack" or "Nervous Breakdown", and that audiences were often irritated by the new, slower Black Flag. Violence against the band (and especially Rollins) was everpresent, although the vocalist was now an avid weight lifter, and more than able to defend himself. Furthermore, to Rollins chagrin, Ginn's interest in marijuana steadily increased (however Rollins would also use drugs recreationally, ingesting massive amounts of LSD before performances in the band's later years). Despite the initial resistance to the new music and quasi-psychedelic direction, My War would later be cited as a formative influence on grunge music. The group would continue to evolve toward a more heavy metal sound, with 1985's Loose Nut featuring more polished production.
Later Period and Break Up
Despite 1984-85 being the most fruitful period for the band and their record label, Ginn and Rollins would ultimately decide to eject Roessler from Black Flag, citing erratic behavior. It's also been suggested that Ginn's accommodating Roessler's college schedule created tension in the group. Her absence, and the lack of a steady drummer (Stevenson quit and was replaced by Anthony Martinez), contributed to the comparatively weak reputation of the last few Black Flag tours. However, the live album Who's Got The 10 1/2 shows the evolving lineup, with Kira and drummer Martinez, to be a powerful and entertaining unit.
By 1986, Black Flag's members had grown tired of the tensions of their relentless touring schedule, infighting, and of living in near-poverty. The band had been together almost a decade, and true commercial success and stability had eluded them. The group's erratic artistic changes were a barrier to their retaining an audience - Ginn was so creatively restless that Black Flag's records were often very dissimilar. At this point, Rollins suggested to Ginn that perhaps Black Flag should release two similar records consecutively so that the group's fans wouldn't always feel lost. Ginn was stunned by the suggestion; it was one of the few times Rollins had ever openly offered an opinion contrary to Ginn's. Perhaps this was why Ginn mixed Rollins' vocals low on the group's next studio album, In My Head. However, the record, with its powerful bluesy proto-grunge-cum-metal, did seem to finally be a cohesive followup to a previous album (Loose Nut) - but it would be their last.
Black Flag played their last concert on June 27, 1986, in Detroit, Michigan; this show has been widely available through online music trading services and is of surprisingly good sound quality. By this point the band had become increasingly talented at performing improvised "jams", with Rollins screaming out lyrics quite literally as they came to him (as is evident on this recording), turning some songs like "Louie, Louie" into frenetic, almost unrecognizable blasts of intensity.
In Get In The Van, Rollins wrote that Ginn telephoned him in August 1986: "He told me he was quitting the band. I thought that was strange considering it was his band and all. So in one short phone call, it was all over." Many sources claim the band did not "officially" break up until 1987, but this appears to be false.
Post Black Flag
Since Black Flag's breakup, Rollins has had the most visible public profile as a musician, writer, and actor. Most Black Flag members have also remained active in music, especially Ginn, who continued playing with groups such as Gone, October Faction, and Screw Radio and Stevenson, who continued on with The Descendents and later ALL.
In September 2003, Black Flag played three reunion shows, two at the Hollywood Palladium and one at Alex's Bar in Long Beach, to benefit cat rescue organizations (a current passion of Ginn's). The lineup for the shows was Dez Cadena on vocals, Greg Ginn on guitar, ROBO on drums, and C'el Revuelta on bass. Professional skateboarder and singer Mike Vallely also sang all the songs from My War at these shows.
Legacy
Throughout their ten-year career as a band, Black Flag’s experiences became legendary, especially in the Southern California area. Much of the band’s history is chronicled in Henry Rollins’ own published tour diary Get In The Van. Black Flag were reportedly blacklisted by the LAPD and Hollywood rock clubs because of the destructiveness of their fans, though Rollins has claimed that police caused far more problems than they solved.
SST Records, an independent American record label that was initially founded to release Black Flag’s debut single, released recordings by influential groups such as Bad Brains, the Minutemen, The Descendents, Meat Puppets, and Hüsker Dü. As well, SST released some albums by Negativland, Soundgarden, and, for a short period, Sonic Youth. Black Flag were involved in legal battles when they attempted more mainstream distribution for their records.
Black Flag's career is chronicled in Our Band Could Be Your Life, a study of several important American underground rock groups. Many members of the grunge scene cited Black Flag's My War album as being influential in their departure from the standard punk model. Steve Turner of Mudhoney stated in an interview, "A lot of other people around the country hated the fact that Black Flag slowed down ... but up here it was really great — we were like 'Yay!' They were weird and fucked-up sounding.".
The Red Hot Chili Peppers have covered both "Gimme Gimme Gimme" and "Nervous Breakdown" live numerous times. Bassist Flea has a Black Flag decal on one of his signature Modulus basses, which also has decals of many other punk rock bands. Additionally, guitarist John Frusciante has cited Greg Ginn as one of his early influences as a guitar player.
Pennywise has covered two of Flag's songs: "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie" and "Nervous Breakdown". Good Riddance recorded a version of "My War". It is a secret track on their record Operation Phoenix, released in 1999. It also appears on their compilation Cover Ups released in 2002.
A Perfect Circle covered Flag’s "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie" on their 2004 release eMOTIVe. Australian post-grunge band Silverchair covered two Black Flag songs on their single for Miss You Love: "Fix Me" & "Wasted". Chicago Punk band Rise Against portrayed Black Flag in the 2005 Lords of Dogtown film. Their cover of "Nervous Breakdown" can be found on the Lords of Dogtown soundtrack. Rise Against also does a cover of the Black Flag song "Fix Me" on the video game Tony Hawk's American Wasteland.
The Brazilian Thrash Metal band Sepultura covered "Rise Above" on the digipak version of their 2001 album Nation.
American black metal band Leviathan covered "My War".
Their strong influence continues even now as evidenced by the popularity of toddler-sized Black Flag t-shirts. The Black Flag song "Rise Above" appears on the popular skateboarding video game Tony Hawk's American Wasteland as well as an episode of Freaks and Geeks. The Black Flag song "TV Party" appears on a Futurama episode Bender Should Not Be Allowed On TV where parts of the song lyrics are sung by Futurama cast. "TV Party" was also sung by Emilio Estevez in the movie Repo Man. TV Party is also on the compilation album Skate to Hell, devised partly by Extreme Sports TV. An Episode of the Fox Network's Millennium entitled "Somehow, Satan Got Behind Me" features a scene in which a CGI dancing baby dressed as a devil slam dances to "My War."
The Ataris changed the Don Henley's original lyric "Out on the road today I saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac" to "... Black Flag sticker..." in their cover of Boys of Summer. The Unseen covered the song "Rise Above", releasing it as a bonus track on their album State of Discontent. The extra track was only included in Japan. Now defunct hardcore punk band Kid Dynamite also covered "Rise Above" as a b-side. American punk rock band Guttermouth recorded a version of "Rise Above" during the recording session for 2006's album Shave The Planet and released it as a free mp3 on their website in October 2006.
Fifteen modern hardcore/metalcore bands such as Most Precious Blood, Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Drowningman, and Coalesce collaborated to form a Black Flag cover album called Black On Black: A Tribute To Black Flag, which was released by ReIgnition Recordings on March 14, 2006.
Watford punk band Gallows covered Nervous Breakdown for the Kerrang Higher Voltage C.D. It later appeared on the specail edition of their debut album Orcastra Of Wolves.
John Belushi, who had joined Black Flag on stage during a Chicago performance in the late 1970s, secured a performance slot for Black Flag on Saturday Night Live. However, a notorious performance by punk band Fear during an earlier SNL episode made SNL producers wary of having punk acts on the show.
Black Flag also influenced post-metal band Neurosis, who on their album Souls at Zero pursued a slower, sludgy direction similar to the My War album. Singer Scott Kelly said of the band: "Black Flag is one of my deepest influences in life, and especially their brutally honest message of no message at all. Their music was always just talking about where they were, right at that moment."
Brodie Foster Hubbard has cited Black Flag as an influence, and when he plays punk rock versions of his songs with his band The Hired Hands (members of Night Wolf), he performs wearing only black gym shorts, in tribute to Henry Rollins. Also, Omar Rodriguez-Lopez of The Mars Volta has claimed Black Flag as an influence, saying that "...Music in English always sounded like a novelty - very much like how music in Spanish sounds like a novelty to most people - something funny and cute to me, and then I heard Black Flag and it just completely changed my perspective on what I wanted to be doing."
Another band who have publicly admitted the influence of Black Flag are My Chemical Romance, "When I was growing up I didn't want to be Van Halen... I wanted to be Greg Ginn" says guitarist Frank Iero. My Chemical Romance singer Gerard Way claims that Black Flag was the band that got him obsessed with the concept of revenge which is one of their primary subjects on their second album Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge.